l did bet my life that both tickets are not quick pick and l also suggested one person bought both tickets by mistake maybe drinking too much so l will live to tell another day 😃🧑‍🎄

Can't see him winning the lawsuit and CA Lottery paying it. Lotteries require a winning ticket be presented, and he only presented one.

He's just being greedy. He won a big sum, isn't that enough?

If he kept track of his tickets, he wouldn't be in this mess.

Ridiculous lawsuit by a greedy person. Longstanding lottery policy is that jackpots are divided amongst winning tickets. No second valid winning ticket was presented and denied. I find it unbelievable that he would have divided up the tickets and stored them in different places.

I'd sure like to be "suffering" his financial losses. Sorry dude- no tickey, no prizey.

Woof, ridiculous?  I think if I was in his position I would do the same thing.  Clearly the guy purchased both tickets but lost one.  If they have surveillance footage in the store it would be easy to prove he purchased it because the ticket purchases are date-stamped.  So it's simply a matter of whether or not the courts would say that proof is enough to override the precise letter of the rules.  I would roll the dice and go for it myself.  If you're being honest, I think you would do the same for a shot at another $200M!

 I would not do so. My best guess is that there is no video available or it was already checked. There is no statement alleging what is his proof and if there was video  or other proof, he would have alleged that fact. The initial burden of proof is on him, not on the lottery.

 They were his regular numbers but did he buy both of them at the same time or did he forget he bought one the day before and just repurchased it the next day. He should get the money but asking for damages and back interest on the unclaimed portion should not be awarded to his negligence of not securing the other ticket.

Of course if they go by time sale of tkt, that cld be the case

I always step to side and check my tickets

he may have overlooked and time stamp cld see if the computer was down and hesitated printing the tkt, something went wrong

Good thought

I I did that b4 but had the other tkt at home and cld not remember and played again to be sure

Another article has a quote by the lottery stating that it was only possible for the tickets to be purchased in separate transactions.

Common sense, dude. You need the other ticket to claim the second amount. He is definitely being greedy. Take your nice win and enjoy life.

I'm with Todd on this one, If I knew I had bought both tickets and couldn't find the other ticket then why not take it to the courts and see what they say. 

Isn't California the state that "confiscates" the video from stores that sell the big jackpot tickets?

This additional info makes me think the second ticket was a quick pick.

  Sorry Artist but the odds are insurmountable that someone got a quick pic that duplicated his long playing numbers and then lost the ticket and both tickets were purchased at the same location making it even more unlikely.

If two winning tickets are sold and one does not get claimed, isn't that equivalent to only one winning ticket being sold?  Why should the government be awarded the second prize? Even if the winner of the first ticket didn't have a valid claim that he purchased both tickets, he should get the prize as if his was the only ticket.

When playing the same numbers on both Mega millions and Powerball it's very easy to make a mistake after 35 yrs this is exactly what happened to him But should we feel sorry for him at least he still has $197,000,000

Read the other articles. And, yes, it has happened before. I think a QP was printed out.

  So a quick pic came out of the same gas station that had the same winning numbers that he played there for over 30 years and the purchaser of that quick pic ticket lost it. Yes, that happens maybe every 8 months or so all the time.

If he did indeed buy both tickets, and the video evidence shows him buying both tickets, then he should get the other half of the jackpot.

The key to proving this is to get the video evidence.   If I had bought both tickets, I would have called the store manager and had him look at the time stamped times to see what it showed.   Then I would have paid the store manager to backup the video evidence to a flash drive (this is very easy to do with security camera systems -- I can do it in 2 minutes on the security DVR that I have)

A few years ago, I called a QuickTrip store when I saw a charge on a debit card that I thought was too large.    I didn't remember that I took out $40 in cash in the same transaction, and the video showed it.   Video evidence is great at proving the truth.

* l agree.

Even if he did purchase the second ticket he shouldn't have a claim unless he presents the other ticket. This sets a bad precedent.

 Only exception would be if it was something out of his control. Stupidity shouldn't be rewarded.

I agree.   I do not view this case any better than the DC guy who purchased a PB ticket when the wrong winning numbers were posted online. 

Again, as a plaintiff, why is the complaint not stating the store video would show he purchased both tickets? That would be his best evidence but interestingly, he is not making that claim. He is being very vague. Saying the lottery knows and he always plays those numbers has zero evidentiary value.

I think the lottery knows a lot more than it is saying due to the litigation.

I suffer from the same delusions as this guy. Id be the winner if I made the bet and have the ticket! Sorry pal the ticket is a " bearer instrument" You need to have the ticket

I wonder what was discussed when he cashed in his ticket earlier this year?  He might have mentioned it to lotto officials .... and they may have told him "whoever" won with the 2nd ticket has one year to claim.  This guy waited it out so that the lottery could weed out any and all fraudsters from making a claim.

I'm surprised we haven't read about any "other" claimants like we did with Edwin Castro.

At any rate ... Id suggest all parties concerned take a few deep breaths and go to their kitchen and prepare for themselves a liverwurst sandwich with ........

I can smell BS when he said he'd been playing the same numbers for 30 years.  Next BS alarm went off when he said his kids picked the numbers  which is the most ridiculous thing in the lawsuit. 

The Mega Millions matrix only had 1-56 until October 2013 and was changed to 1-75 towards the end of October 2013. So how could he have played the numbers 66 &70 for 30 years when they didn't even exist until 11 years ago?

I'd dismiss the lawsuit and laugh in his face on that alone.

Were they 1 yrs old when picked the numbers?

Ohhh That is a super good point about the numbers.

And the guy waited a year to see if the real other winner came forward, all the while claiming he misplaced the ticket. I hope nothing happened to the other winner.

Why didn't he bring up the "lost" ticket when he first made the claim?

I think if someone else actually filed a claim he'd have just moved on with his life. Since it became clear that no one else is coming forward he must've figured he could steal this too thinking it'd be easy to convince with the same numbers as his.

He still looking for it

will be funny if other torched qp n purchased hrs later

but he needs to know it he duplicated the tkt by mistake

Well he cld hv played them for 30 yrs in Bingo

people are so greedy

It still does not make it his ticket if the numbers duplicated for someone else.  One cannot solely own a particular set of numbers. If I play a set of favorite numbers and they repeat later in a qp for someone else, I have no claim there.

The lottery could end this thing quickly if the other ticket WAS a qp, just by telling him that. Since that is not happening, then the other ticket is most likely a 100% the other one he can't find bought with his play card. It will have to be determined in court what happens now.

He has the burden of proof.  I would not give him any info on the other ticket and there likely has already been informal discussions with him on this matter.  If they tell him it was a qp, then he will claim there was a computer error and his 2nd ticket was oddly printed out as a qp. You should always let your opponent back himself into a corner.

"Plaintiff has suffered financial hardship and emotional distress, including but not limited to, embarrassment, anxiety and mental anguish, all to his general damage in a sum in excess of $50,000.00," the lawsuit states.

Get a f****n grip, man.

someone bet him $200 million that he would lose his other ticket and now he has to pay up.

You only get to win once, buddy....greedy!

If he bought both tickets at the SAME time. Then he has a case. Ticket number should tell when it was purchased and where. Plus time ticket was printed will show up on tickets also. I'm not sure if barcode reveals time printed. If everything points toward that chevron gas station and it's narrowed down to a 5 minute window. All logical reasoning points to him being the full winner of the jackpot. They could bring in a math specialist and he could explain the astronomical odds it would be for the same identical numbers to be printed from the same lottery machine at the same location within a 10 second window. Plus they could look to see how close the two tracking numbers are on the tickets. Now getting the information about the second ticket is something the attorney will have to fight for. All the tracking numbers, etc. Because if that ticket was printed, all those numbers exist in their database. Now if he's just trying to get the other half because no one claimed it. Then he won't get it.

* When Lahijani showed up in June to pick up half the jackpot, he could have told the lottery officials that he was the winner of the entire jackpot, but at present, could not locate the 2nd ticket.

Instead, according to the report, he did not want to talk to the press, nor were lottery officials made aware of his decision to be paid out in a lump sum or not. The guy was private, and that's his choice. Fast forward to December & suddenly he's accusing the lottery of being dishonest, lacking integrity & being treated unfairly because the lottery " should know" he is entitled to the entire jackpot. Why did he wait 6 months before filing a lawsuit? 

There's a reason Indiana Jones tossed the SS officer out of the Zeppelin onto luggage below- " No ticket!"

It does not matter about any video footage the store may or may not have. The guy does NOT have the second ticket so, HE should not get the other half of the lottery prize. The ticket is always proof of purchase.

A math specialist would not be useful. As the lottery stated in other news stories, the ticket could have been purchased by two friends trying to play the same numbers. And why would the winner purchase the same exact ticket a fraction of a second or seconds later? It makes zero sense.

Perhaps a second ticket printed out in error and someone later bought it.

If he was shown on video buying both tickets he should get dem fat stacks.

He must not be good with money.

He does have the funds to pay for the lawsuit and the aspect of being the sole winner that presented a winning ticket could get interesting. We do have to remember, it is CA and they create some unique laws with their thought process out there. Might have to break out the popcorn for this one.

A jury might have a different opinion. They will probably be on his side before the trial starts. Little guy getting stiffed by the greedy lottery commission in California. Now if the facts come out that it's just a money grab. And there is no proof whatsoever that the second ticket was purchased at the same gas station. Then he has no chance.

Someone who just made out with almost $200M is a lil guy no more. A typical jury would see him as being greedy just like any other multimillionaire.

The case will never get that far and is unlikely to survive a motion to dismiss. As others have pointed out, the ticket is a bearer instrument and the plaintiff has been unusually vague with details to support his claim.

I agree.

i hope it goes to trial so they can put him on the stand and ask him why he treats lottery tickets like a squirrel treats acorns. i can't get my head around all these lost lottery ticket stories.

If the second ticket was purchased at the same gas station. Who do you think bought the ticket? The lottery commission can squash this quickly by stating it was bought somewhere else. Now if that's not the case. Then the door is now left open. A good attorney could have a field day with this case. Especially if the ticket was bought within seconds of the 1st winning ticket. It's all in the database. He was a lil guy. Jury would still side with him if ticket was purchased at same gas station. No doubt about it.

Well, You KNOOW Ole Stat$  iz watchin DIZ..!! Maybe I can pickup some pointerz on dem LOz weak spotz...you know, like , a Prize Fighter studyin their opponent for da uPcOmIn fight..

Cauze, I think LOz are like the Big-Headed Alienz on the Star Trek  episode, wheaa Captain Pike said az he grabbed'im and pointed his Phazer at hiz Head..

"I think I've just blasted a Hole in that window, and you're preventing Me from seeing it..noow would you like me to test my Theory out on your Head"?..

Dat Hole instantly appeared ..

Ole Stat$ believe I done hit dat Lottery,.. several timez,.. and YOU LOz have prevented my win...noow would  _____ ____ ____ ___ ___ ____ __ ____  ___ ___  _____ ____ ?

-Stat$talker

P.U. something stinks to high heaven with regards to this missing California mega millions ticket.

Now off to prepare my liverwurst sandwich .....

First, I don't think he bought the ticket. His whole story about playing the same numbers for 30 years is utter BS. If I bought both I wouldn't try so hard to convince ppl with that instead of sticking to specific facts.

 Second, even if he did buy the second he shouldn't have any claim over the other half till he presents his other ticket. It's the buyer's responsibility to keep the ticket safe and lottery has no obligation to entertain his stupidity or recklessness.

 He's not the lil guy anymore. He just won a multimillion dollar prize and average Americans would see that as he should count his blessings and move on.  From what I can gather he definitely didn't purchase the second and is just trying out his luck in court since no one else came forward with a claim. I wouldn't have waited till the last day to file a suit if I bought both. Wouldn't have made a BS story about playing the same numbers for 30 years when lottery matrix only included 1-56 till 2013 which means 66 & 70 didn't exist. He would've known that if his claim was genuine.

He's just another greedy multimillionaire. 

What if there never was a second ticket and it was a made up, announced, second ticket by someone in the office of the California lottery?  Does anybody know exactly what happens to the money that does not get claimed?

Does the state where a large jackpot does not get claimed get all the money or does it get distributed to all the states according to the number of tickets sold for the drawings since it was last hit? 

I assume the states already got their share of the tickets sold, before the drawing was held.  I assume also that the Multi state association sends the money to the state for Jackpot winnings to be distributed to the winner(s).  Do they do that before the winner is verified or after?  Who gets to keep the unclaimed jackpots? 

In this case the two tickets were from the same state and one didn't get claimed.  Do the people who bought losing tickets have something to say about how half of the jackpot is handled?

    If it was a quick pick then it wasn't his even though that would be quite the controversy with the same obscure lottery location selling 2 winning tickets independent of each other. It had to be a filled out card but why did he play it twice unless it was on different days that he went in there and forgot he played it and then he claims he lost it. It is possible he didn't realize he played it twice at the time never figuring he had the other ticket but thought it strange that those numbers were also played by someone else. But what could he do but wait and see if someone else claimed it then he would know that he didn't have it and tossed it. There is a lot of positives his way since the ticket was sold in the same store but whether the California lottery awards it without the ticket is another matter. They should offer him half and tell him to go home and stop whining since he lost the ticket.

They can kill a man giving him that much money all at once or make him crazy sitting home scheming how to get the other half.  Showing a pile of losers with those numbers would go a long way. 

BobP

See: The Treasure of the Sierra Madre

A judge did throw out a case against Edwin Castro ( the 2 billion winner) because the plaintiff didn't have a ticket.  The link below to refresh the story.

https://www.lotterypost.com/news/352198

Sounds to me like he played the same numbers twice on separate tickets and lost one of them.

Say he filled out two or more play slips and had the winning set of numbers on two slips but didn't realize it. He checks his tickets after the drawing, finds one of the winners and in his excitement he doesn't check the other tickets that closely if at all. But he saves the play slips as a memento. At some later point he's looking at the play slips and sees that he played the same combo twice. But by then he already threw the other tickets in the trash not realizing he had two winning tickets. He then files the lawsuit saying he bought the other ticket but no longer has it. The question is will the lottery believe him. It's worth a shot.

Now if the lottery says there is no video of anyone else buying the second winning ticket then that proves his case that he bought both at the same time. Because if he bought both of them there would be no second video of someone else.

He said he'd been playing the same numbers for 30 years. You don't need to check your tickets closely to recognize a second set of the same numbers. And someone who'd been playing lottery for decades always checks their tickets and thoroughly.

Those that always play the same set of numbers don't fill out a slip every time. They carry all the playslips in a pouch till they can't be used anymore.

It baffles me that so many are buying his BS and not noticing the gaping holes in this fabrication. Hopefully the lawyers for the lottery could point out the lies and the judge throws away the baseless suit.

Thanks for posting this.

Before I read this story I thought he had both ticket ...  and they were late on processing the second ticket....

I didn't know the full story (I just kept hearing bits and pieces)

I have so many questions...

If he played those same numbers ....for years... then how could he be so careless and only have one ticket and not the other?

It is always understood that you must have a ticket to claim a prize, otherwise anyone could say: "I won such and such jackpot that's about to expire but I lost the ticket". They could say they don't remember the time or day they bought it, just that they bought it.

I would like to know if the tickets were purchased at the same location? Different locations? Different day?

If the lottery does so much work to make sure they have the right winner, how come they can't  follow the same guidelines for the second ticket if it really is his? Is there surveillance footage?

(I really have so many questions.)

But whatever the outcome, it will set precedent.

On one hand I feel bad for him IF he really did by both tickets... on the other, he is set for life with one ticket and the missing ticket is his own fault.

Kind of reminds me of the group of guys who purchased Powerball tickets faithfully every game... on Wednesday and Saturday....BUT failed to realize that a Monday drawing had been added.... And guess what, their numbers came on a Monday drawing and they didn't have a ticket... but they still sought a lawyer in the hopes that something could be done.

I know this is not the same scenario but it does show how playing the same numbers year after year after year... does not leave room for a person to be careless, as you never know when your numbers are going to come up.

You have to secure the ticket...AND ask for a receipt as it has ALL the information about the ticket on it!

How so? Just because one typically played these numbers, even for decades, and kept a pile of the losing tickets, has zero evidencial weight towards whether a ticket was purchased for a particular future game. Can you imagine the volume of people who play the same numbers for years and forget once to play or lose a ticket?

I wanted to clarify why intent has no bearing in this matter. This is not a criminal case, for example murder, where you are looking at intent in terms of charging first degree murder or manslaughter.

I would enjoy seeing the non claimed(MM or PB) jackpots go back into the existing jackpot. If a state has held onto this $________ amount for the allotted time,they certainly have gotten their share of interest gained. An unclaimed jackpot is the same result as a rollover.. no payout to a person(s) or legal entity. Give whatever state(s) that had the winning ticket(s) $1 Million but return the rest.

i also believe aliens are involved here. not because it's plausible but because it's much more fun.

 Cashiers play customers play slips all the time for themselves. There's a convenience store  near me that the cashier validates the slip twice, one for herself, she takes money out the tip jar to pay. Or, keeps a running balance. That store has an agreement, if you play a slip, the cashier on duty plays also.

this is a pretty good story in its own right. you should consider making a post and poll in the discussion forum: "would you buy tickets at a store where the cashier plays customers' self-picks?"

That story sounds a bit like a tall tale.

You know you can report the store to the state and they'd lose their license to sell lottery?

 Retailers and their employees aren't supposed to play lottery. They might look away for the Mega/PB as they're multi-state and hard to manipulate but what you're saying would cost them their license. Strictly against the rules.

* That's true in CA. It's so strict that if you employed by the lottery, No one living under your roof can play any game sold by the State lottery.

I think the law just applies to people employed by a lottery in most if not all states.

But retailers can establish policies on whether their employees can play. Retailers are not lottery employees.

Retailers are part of the restrictions. It's true at least in PA and CO but other states could be different.

It says he's been playing this one set of numbers for years. He may play that one set every time and fill out the rest of the slips with all different numbers every drawing.

It's no different from people that fill out cards for P3 & P4 with different numbers every day or every few days but often include their two or three favorites. 

I looked up the PA code. You might be right.  This is really broad. I guess it depends on how operations of the games is defined.

(a) A Powerball ticket may not be purchased in this Commonwealth by, and a prize will not be paid to, an officer or employee of the Pennsylvania Lottery or any of the Lottery's professional services contractors or subcontractors who are involved in the operation of the on-line lottery games system or its associated drawings, or to a spouse, child, brother, sister or parent residing in the same household as these individuals.

That's what sounds like nonsense to me. The white balls went up until 56 till they changed it to 75 in 2013 so there's no way he could be playing the same set.

 And regular players always have their preferred slips marked in some way as they don't want to check each number individually every time. So he couldn't have played the same numbers twice and definitely not filled them out again that day unless he checked and was certain he was missing his slip.

I worked at convenience stores in PA for years so I'm familiar with the rules and spoke to store employees in CO recently who confirmed it as well.

Thanks. Learned something new. I am sure that law prevents a great deal of fraud and theft but seems excessive in not allowing a cashier to play at a different retailer.

Are lottery retailers allowed to buy lottery tickets?  If you want to know go to the source. 

"I think if I was in his position I would do the same thing.  "

Anyone who honestly believed they bought both tickets and had a lick of sense would try to collect the second prize. What do they have to lose? The cash value is about $47 million, so if they settle for half even a 20% contingency fee is $4.7 million, and there's probably only a fraction of the work required for an auto accident that might result in a fee of that size.

"the odds are insurmountable that someone got a quick pic that duplicated his long playing numbers and then lost the ticket and both tickets were purchased at the same location making it even more unlikely. "

Nonsense. There was a 1 in 302 million chance that another ticket would use the same set of numbers as him every time a ticket was printed.  That the other ticket was printed at the same store reduces the odds of a random duplicate, but only because it reduces the number of tickets. CA sold about 2.25 million tickets for that drawings, so statewide there was a relatively modest 1 in 134 chance that his combination would be repeated. The big mystery is how many tickets were sold at that particular location. Sales per retailer for that drawing averaged about 95 tickets, so if there were 94 tickets sold in addition to his the odds of another one with the same numbers would be a bit better than 1 in 5 million. Unlikely, but hardly insurmountable, especially considering the odds were only 1 in 302.5 million for any of the tickets printed there to have whatever combination it does. Who lost the ticket has absolutely no effect on the probability, because the ticket was apparently lost by the person who bought it, regardless of who that person was.

"isn't that equivalent to only one winning ticket being sold?"

Two winning tickets is very obviously two separate prizes.

 "Even if the winner of the first ticket didn't have a valid claim that he purchased both tickets, he should get the prize as if his was the only ticket. "

That's just plain stupid, especially if you acknowledge that he doesn't have a valid claim. He owns any tickets he bought, but not the numbers. On a list of all the sensible things that could be done with an unclaimed prize, giving it to him isn't even the very last thing on that list because there's no sensible reason to give him a prize he doesn't have a valid claim to.

"I don't think he bought the second ticket as he waited till the last day "

There was zero chance that the lottery was going to give him the prize before the claim period ended so what's the advantage of filing earlier?

"Even if he did purchase the second ticket he shouldn't have a claim unless he presents the other ticket. This sets a bad precedent. "

There needs to be something to keep every idiot out there from trying to claim ownership of an unclaimed prize, but I think a prize should be awarded as long as the claimant can prove they purchased the winning ticket and nobody else has come forward to claim ownership. If the  2nd ticket was a QP then the guy has absolutely no valid case. If both tickets were printed within a very brief period then thee only rational conclusion is that he wanted two identical tickets or a second one was printed in error for some reason. In that case the 2nd ticket should be considered invalid, and there's only one winning ticket. If this guy  really did buy both I think the most likely reason is forgetting that he already  bought a ticket, so the second one probably was printed a day or two later. Whichever way it happened, the lottery knows  exactly when each ticket was printed, and they know whether they were a QP or a self-pick, and they almost certainly have the security video.

"A jury might have a different opinion. "

A jury is very unlikely to see the case. Juries hear the evidence and rule on th facts. This case starts with a law that says tickets are required in order to claim a prize, and the validity of the law is the province of judges. A NH judge ruled that a general law about what information is public did not actually apply to lottery winners. I'd be surprised if the rule (which I'm almost certain comes from the Megamillions consortium rather than individual states) is a  general rule that has  been incorrectly interpreted.  On the off chance a judge does rule that a ticket isn't required when there's other sufficient proof I'd expect a settlement.

"Retailers are part of the restrictions. "

That seems rather unlikely, but at best might apply to some limited subset of employees of a retailer. There's zero chance that the guy who works the deli counter at Kroger's (never mind their adult child that moved back home) is prohibited from playing. (Thanks to grwurston for corroborating the obvious, as it applies in MD.)

The probability that a particular store sells the same jackpot ticket by chance alone is much lower than your estimate.   I can testify for the correct exact probability calculation if the guy needs such a witness.

Yes there is a video tape of Both tickets been purchased just like with Edwin Castro they also had his video tape too but due to the New policy Created by the California Lottery department all videos are no longer to be shared  with the public like before. Think about Edwin Castro he went through Hell simple because the California Lottery department refused to release the video of him buying his ticket . In this case they are doing it again They have Confiscated all the available videos on this two tickets been purchased and they Know 100 percent who bought both tickets and all they are saying to the Public now is Kiss My B...😃🧑‍🎄

 It is not just California that sells tickets to this game which makes it unlikely that the same store in that particular state sold two of the same winning tickets. He played it forgetting he had put his regular set of numbers on a ticket he bought previously and duplicated that but lost it.

The Castro case was a totally different fact pattern.  Someone else claimed it was their lottery ticket vs belonging to Castro. The lottery had to investigate the claim by the other alleged winner.

The lottery has stated that there were separate transactions in this current matter. The lottery had to wait to see if anyone else came forward to claim the other ticket. 

There is more than a reasonable amount of suspicion regarding this lottery winner claiming there was a second ticket. If he had purchased the second ticket, he would be the one to know the when and where and should have alleged that in his complaint.  Oddly, he did not do so.

"We have no way of knowing who has the second jackpot-winning ticket from that incredible night," California Lottery spokesperson Carolyn Becker said in a statement."

This suggests there is no video available.

They are Lying 100 percent that they don't know who purchased the second ticket . The fact is they already know if it was the same man or not . They are acting Stupid. If a man comes in a Bank and Robs a Bank on Monday with No Mask 😷 and the same man comes in on Friday and robs the Bank again with No mask 😷. Even if the Lottery Department are senseless we now have Facial Recognition software that can compare two faces and tell you if they are the same person. At this point in time The lottery Department have not said we do not have both video tapes and also they have not said we are looking for missing video tapes. The point that made this similar to Edwin Castro is the point that This poor man was fighting for his life money for over one year at the same time The lottery Department refused to release the video tape of Edwin Castro buying his ticket up to today they still have not released that tape. Here we go again They confiscated two video tape and they have not said 100 percent that they don't have both tape so this lawsuit will force them to at least give the tapes to defense Attorneys or they themselves will be in violation They are simply D.... heads