Texas Lottery suspends sales for 'All or Nothing' game

Comment #46

Ronnie316 — Sun, 23 Jun 2013 14:56:12 GMT

I don't think the extra pay out for a single day hurt they too much.

Comment #45

LottoBoner — Sun, 23 Jun 2013 07:09:20 GMT

Impressive chart Jon D!

That was a very big spike in payout for I suppose was it one draw? They definately crapped their pants.

Comment #44

jamella724 — Sun, 23 Jun 2013 05:58:53 GMT

They will definitely revise their system if a lot of players already develop a technique to win huge amount of prizes. I guess it's not good too if there are a lot of winners for sure the prizes will go down. Hopefully they can develop new system that will benefit both the players and the state.

Comment #43

Jon D — Fri, 07 Jun 2013 16:52:56 GMT

I looked at the sales data and made a plot of it. The Sales had been in steady decline since launch, I guess some of that is expected for a new game. But with this recent cancellation and any bad feelings if they come back with limiting combos, the sales may suffer even further.

With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing this All or Nothing game here in CA. It's got better payout and an interesting playstyle compared to other draw games, perfect for replacing our awful Daily Derby $2 game. Maybe... [ More ]

Comment #42

rcbbuckeye — Fri, 07 Jun 2013 15:14:06 GMT

In the latest press release on Texas's lottery website thay explain that often players were gravitating to a smaller subset of number combinations available for selection. We saw the potential for unusually and high prize payouts should one of the favored combinations be drawn. It goes on to say that they are looking at options for liability and or wager limits.

This game was growing on me, but I think when they start it up again I'm done with it.

Comment #41

KY Floyd — Fri, 07 Jun 2013 04:33:28 GMT

The chances of paying for one of those combinations is only 1 in 676,000, but if it happened they could have been on the hook for a half billion or more.

That would require 1000 players playing both high and low or even and odd, but considering they did close the game, you might not be that far off.

It's not people playing both high and low or even and odd. Even if nobody played both even and odd or high and low it's a fairly safe bet that all four options are played equally. If 500... [ More ]

Comment #40

PlayToWin47 — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 18:17:02 GMT

Sure ... you're right ... rip-off is not correct ... unless the numbers that you wanted to play came up, and you didn't win because you were not allowed to play those numbers. Then, the lottery ripped you off of the winnings that should be in your pocket.

Comment #39

PlayToWin47 — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 17:22:36 GMT

Whether it is in the rules or not, before I play or whatever, to be told that no, you can't play those numbers because too many other people are already playing them just isn't right!!!

At least the pari-mutual thing if too many people win with the same set is understandable. I may not be so happy that I didn't win as much as I should have or as much as is advertised ... but it IS understandable.

Comment #38

PlayToWin47 — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 17:17:38 GMT

Nicely put ... I agree

Comment #37

Stack47 — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 15:55:18 GMT

If people picked their 12 numbers randomly averaging more than 1 winner for every 1.35 million tickets sold would be very unusual, but not all people pick random combinations.

It's unlikely even in the 5/39 games with a fixed jackpot that very many players will play the same combination twice so the lottery doesn't assume they will have extra multiple jackpot and secondary prize winners. In this game, mathematically there is no difference between betting the same combo twice and playing one... [ More ]

Comment #36

helpmewin — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 15:18:57 GMT

that's good news

Comment #35

rcbbuckeye — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 13:30:28 GMT

Well whatever happens, it ain't gonna be quick. For whatever rules changes there might be, the lottery director (Grief) has to present the commissioners with a proposed rule change. Then there is a comment period (can't remember how long) in which anyone can comment on the proposed rule change. Then the commissioners rule to accept or decline the rule change. This usually takes 2 or 3 months as a whole. Also, I can't remember the commissioners not accepting a proposed rule change presented to th... [ More ]

Comment #34

helpmewin — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:31:31 GMT

01-02-03-04-07-08-16-19-20- all draws under 20 is a good deal

Comment #33

savagegoose — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:11:10 GMT

yeah could be they see half the players ar playing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

and if it actually came out the liabilty would be a few billion.

Comment #32

KY Floyd — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 04:34:34 GMT

Nobody has come up with a winning a scheme, because the game is random and has fixed prizes. The problem is that in this game they advertise that the prizes are guaranteed. There's no escape hatch when they get an unusually high number of winners, and some idiot designed it so that it exposed them to the possibility of an extremely high number of winners.

There are about 2.7 million combinations for a 12 of 24 game. That makes the odds of having all or nothing 1 in 1.35 million, and the prize... [ More ]

Comment #31

Jon D — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 03:39:37 GMT

There you go, player angst.

I really don't agree with limiting number combos as a way to limit liability. Why do it on the front end and piss off players unneccessarily when you don't have to? Any particular number combo with a large number of wagers is not likely to be drawn anyway. So just deal with it on the back end with pari-mutual prize payout exceptions, if and when it happens. Then the only people it affects are those winners. And if the rules are made clear about reduced prizes unde... [ More ]

Comment #30

RJOh — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 01:58:05 GMT

If you know those are the rules before you play, how can it be a rip-off? Besides, if you can't buy a ticket how are you going to get ripped-off. Same thing applies if your numbers come in but you played them too late for the drawing they were drawn.

Comment #29

PlayToWin47 — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 01:35:08 GMT

Seriously?!? I have never played pick3 or pick4 games, so don't know anything about them, but it blows my mind that on any game where you pick your own numbers, you might not be allowed to play the numbers you want!!! What a rip-off

Comment #28

Ronnie316 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 22:53:07 GMT

Comment #27

helpmewin — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 22:38:30 GMT

Comment #26

Ronnie316 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 22:32:58 GMT

They play for the thrill of the fight.

Comment #25

helpmewin — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 22:26:35 GMT

paranormal activity why they even playing

Comment #24

Ronnie316 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 21:54:54 GMT

I wish MM would start charging $5. per line.

Comment #23

Ronnie316 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 21:54:08 GMT

I like updates to the game. It keeps things interesting.

Comment #22

helpmewin — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 21:32:38 GMT

i suppose it may look that way, but that's not true.

it's just a simple updated thing everything needs updated from time to time

Comment #21

RJOh — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 20:38:25 GMT

Maybe some high rollers have come up with a winning scheme like what happened in Massachusetts. The lottery would only start losing money if the regular players felt the high rollers had an unfair advantage and stopped playing.

I would be surprised if Texas didn't have a liability clause somewhere in their rules. Ohio has them but most players never bother to read them even when they are printed on the play slips as was the case a few years ago when Buckeye5 had a top prize of $100K with a c... [ More ]

Comment #20

jimjwright — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 20:27:46 GMT

I think it depends in each state on how they handle it or what they set as their liability limit. I found the following on the Florida Lottery Pick3 site:

Unlike the Lottery's other terminal games, which are pari-mutuel in design (that is, players are vying for a portion of what is in the prize pool), Cash 3 and Play 4 offer set prize payouts. Therefore, the Lottery has established a $10 million liability limit for Cash 3 for any particular three-digit number for each drawing. Should any thre... [ More ]

Comment #19

Jon D — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 20:27:42 GMT

Different games have different profit margins. Lotto and pick3/4 typically are structured to have 50% total prize payout. The highest payout are Scratch games, with 60-70% prize payout.

This TX All or Nothing game seems to be in the middle, designed to pay out around 56% in prizes, although right now in the early stages of it's life is paying out 58% with some lucky hits recently.

A careful mix of games and profit margins in various states gives them a total 50-60% prize payout to the publ... [ More ]

Comment #18

savagegoose — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 19:56:29 GMT

According to the Lottery, players have embraced the game and its unique playstyle, pushing sales beyond expectations. All or Nothing

launched on Sept. 9, 2012, and in its first eight months, the game has generated sales of $62.5 million and $36.7 million in prizes to players.

there's your problem. paying out $36 mill and only taking 62 mill in sales, how is a business meant to run on that

Comment #17

Jon D — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 19:52:12 GMT

Is this limiting of duplicate number combos disclosed or confirmed anywhere by the lottery/state? What is the number or percentage? What does the terminal say when a number is rejected?

And I think this is could be viewed as borderline fraud, if it is not disclosed. So if someone gets a quick pick generated at the terminal, it is not just a (pseudo) random number, it is also checked against existing numbers wagered with certain numbers withheld from the RNG results. If they start doing this o... [ More ]

Comment #16

Stack47 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 19:10:37 GMT

The math is one thing, but lotteries operate with annual budgets, which could get clobbered due to certain people not acting like random number generators...the nerve!

The QP players probably figured out they should play the remaining numbers too and double those wins. Maybe they didn't do the math the jackpot for nothing is the same as for all.

What they might do is similar to what PB and MM has, is to add pari-mutuel exceptions in the game rules, a cap on prize liability if the total e... [ More ]

Comment #15

jimjwright — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:45:34 GMT

triples(pick3) and quads(pick4) sell out alot of the times also.

Jimmy

Comment #14

RJOh — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:42:47 GMT

I don't have a link but I do know in Ohio on certain holidays, historical or special dates, if you want to play those numbers (pick3 or pick4) you have to play them early because they are cut off after a certain amount has be wagered on them. I assumed that was standard in most other states too.

Comment #13

JAP69 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:41:32 GMT

Keep the system players happy who can not purchase their selections on a cutoff of number combinations and go pari mutuel for payout.

New Jersey does pari mutuel in their pick3 and whatever other games.

Other states have pari mutuel too.

Comment #12

Jon D — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:08:09 GMT

Anything is possible, but what limit? 100? 0.1%? What is practical without upsetting players with confusing and arbitrary rejections?

I haven't encountered anything about limits on pick 3/4 wagers, do you have a link which shows where they do that?

Only limits I heard of in recent memory was the MA Cash Winfall rolldown issue, limiting the amount of wagers per terminal and enforcing employee rules for use of machines, etc.

Comment #11

RJOh — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:57:14 GMT

I don't see how they can limit wagers,

Why couldn't they limit wagers? They do it with the pick3 and pick4 games. Don't you think their computers are powerful enough to track all the possible combinations and what has been waged on them fast enough

Comment #10

RJOh — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:48:24 GMT

if they uncovered a flaw to their benefit?

There is no such thing as a flaw to their benefit , they call that good design. They call a flaw that benefit the players a bad design .

Comment #9

Jon D — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:41:07 GMT

Sure, the game was paying out a few percentage more than it should, but GTECH notified the TLC of another problem. They are the ones that see the number population, coverage of combinations, duplicates/overlap, and betting patterns. They probably saw a potential problem with an extremely high prize liability looming in the near future.

The math is one thing, but lotteries operate with annual budgets, which could get clobbered due to certain people not acting like random number generators...th... [ More ]

Comment #8

JezzVim — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:39:28 GMT

I use to give daily picks until the mob got angry that I didn't give up my system. Ha! Now I keep everythng to myself and make out like a bandit. Mastered the 3 digit and went on to the 4 digit. Keeping away from the 5 digit for my own reasons, the lottery wouldn't like a consistent winner in that game.

I hear that the Megaball is going to be made more difficult to hit, I wonder why

Comment #7

Stack47 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:27:51 GMT

I agree with jackpotismine about keeping quiet about an actual winning system.

That's good advice but this game wasn't shut down because of systems for picking the numbers. It was probably closed because a large number of players are playing all even and odd or all high and low. And/or possibly because a large number of players are playing the leftover set of numbers to win the match 12 and match 0 jackpots. The game really has two $250,000 jackpots and for an extra $2 a player can win both.... [ More ]

Comment #6

CLETU$ — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:17:27 GMT

Yeah they'll suspend or eliminate a game if they think players have found a flaw in the game,but would they also suspend or eliminate the game if they uncovered a flaw to their benefit?I think not.They would just keep their mouth shut and continue selling the tickets.

Comment #5

Coin Toss — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:42:25 GMT

I agree with jackpotismine about keeping quiet about an actual winning system.

Also, in any form of gambling, casinos, racetracks, sports books, lotteries the number one priority is always 'protecting the integrity of the game'. All of these entities know that math is on their side and will eventually prove itself out.

If a flaw, real or perceived is found in any game suspending or eliminating it is the usual result.

Comment #4

Ronnie316 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:07:42 GMT

in an abundance of caution,

is just another way of saying......... The state will now hire more employees

Comment #3

dallascowboyfan — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:24:15 GMT

Comment #2

Goteki54 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 12:39:39 GMT

I agree, some people will never learn.

Comment #1

jackpotismine — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 12:33:13 GMT

That's why if you have a system that works, keep it quiet. The minute 'they' know, they will stop it or change it.

Texas Lottery suspends sales for 'All or Nothing' game

Lottery Post — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 12:27:04 GMT

By Todd Northrop

The Texas Lottery has temporarily suspended sales for its All or Nothing draw game.

The Lottery Commission says it has been notified by GTECH Corp., the lottery operator in Texas, of a game design issue. The issue is caused in part by player propensity to play certain numbers.

The Texas Lottery will evaluate placing limitations on wagers that can be purchased for any number combination in the game. According to the Lottery, The practice of setting liability limits is co... [ More ]