Are Computerized Lottery Drawings Truly Random?

Comment #25

hypersoniq — Sun, 27 Jun 2004 01:24:42 GMT

the simplest random number generator is the one used by Microsoft in Visual basic... it is a big list of random numbers all between 0 and 1 cast as type unsigned long...you need to do 2 things...1 Seed the RNG (RANDOMIZE)2 call the random function (RND)The most popular method is RANDOMIZE(TIMER) which grabs the exact time stamp from your machine and uses it to pick it's position in the big list... at no two times will the system generate the same number because it includes year/month/day/hour... [ More ]

Comment #24

CASH Only — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:08:56 GMT

I would think that for a JACKPOT game, the lottery might want to ensure that there is no winner.

Comment #23

vincejr — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:20:01 GMT

Virginia uses da balls for all drawings...all drawings are shown live on television (with the exception of Northern VA, where they still can't find a television station to carry them)...and players are allowed to witness the drawing procedures, by appointment with lottery security (they have to issue badges and get an escort for them).

Comment #22

Todd — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:57:24 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by MikeK on June 22, 2004Todd, Because both the lottery terminal and the lottery draw machine are probably using very similar random number generators, you may happen to hit the perfect time when they spit out the same numbers. I find that very hard to believe. Not only because the terminal selects numbers for many different systems using the the same generator, even for lottery games that are not computerized versus teh drawing machine dealing with only the computerize... [ More ]

Comment #21

Pick-4_Master — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 17:48:54 GMT

(Florida still uses Ping-Pong Ball Draw Machines,) I don't understand why people thought Jim695 was paranoid or worrying about nothing the government can not be trusted whether it's your Local State Officials or Federal Government.The State's are out to make money and Lots of It so if some State Lotteries can do it while screwing the Public over they will.Maybe not all State Lotteries but some the only 2 States I know that still use Ping-Pong Ball Machines are Georgia and Florida so many are m... [ More ]

Comment #20

RJOh — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:50:14 GMT

Random is what ever the lottery commission says it is. Years ago Ohio had a so-called random drawings for losers in which players mailed in their losing tickets for a random drawing. The lottery people pick a few envelopes from each mail bag to receive a prize and it turns out most of the winners worked in the local Cleveland post office. The lottery people thought picking a few envelopes from each mail bag was random, but the postal employees made sure their envelopes was the last in every b... [ More ]

Comment #19

MikeK — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:37:37 GMT

Todd, Because both the lottery terminal and the lottery draw machine are probably using very similar random number generators, you may happen to hit the perfect time when they spit out the same numbers. I find that very hard to believe. Not only because the terminal selects numbers for many different systems using the the same generator, even for lottery games that are not computerized versus teh drawing machine dealing with only the computerized games.But then, reading your previous post, mayb... [ More ]

Comment #18

Todd — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:34:50 GMT

BobP,I think you're right-on. I would only add a couple of things:If you're going to play a computerized lottery draw, then my advice would be to go with Quick Picks. Because both the lottery terminal and the lottery draw machine are probably using very similar random number generators, you may happen to hit the perfect time when they spit out the same numbers.Your perception about Florida lottery machines generating numbers from a list is not too far from the truth. The same is true for all... [ More ]

Comment #17

st.germain — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:07:18 GMT

I used to win quite frequently in illinois playing the little lotto. I actually had hit the jackpot twice. Then one day ,illinois had a lottery software upgrade? (???) What the heck was that i said. And ever since i rarely get more then two numbers and rarely get three. I always suspected that the game was somehow rigged and now after reading this latest post ..I am truly convinced that lotto games are rigged.

Comment #16

BobP — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:53:22 GMT

Do you find yourself asking, Did I miss something? If you're closer to forty then twenty, the world you live in is no longer the place you learned about in school. These days just about everything is a cheat. Nothing you see advertised, on the news, etc. is exactly what it seems to be. If you've ever been a witness or an expert on something being reported, so much is wrong you're rolling on the floor or screaming. At least in the U.S.S.R. people had the luxury of knowing what the governmen... [ More ]

Comment #15

DoctorEw220 — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 03:28:55 GMT

so that's Todd's last name- Northrop. sounds rich. good last name too.

Comment #14

MikeK — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:51:37 GMT

Todd,Thanks for the input.I assumed that originally too, but I could not find any specs on Lottery terminals from GTECH and other companies. Do you have any sources?Good Luck

Comment #13

RJOh — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:26:15 GMT

From jim695's post:They(Indiana lottery commission) claim the reason payouts are so low here is that too many poor people live in Indiana. States like Rhode Island, Virginia and South Carolina, whose daily game payouts are roughly ten times more than Indiana's, have a more affluent population, and more border states. I would think that the percentage of payout would be the same regardless of who's playing. Since when has a poor man's dollar had less value than an affluent man's dollar? They bo... [ More ]

Comment #12

golotto — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 23:21:47 GMT

thanks Todd for the info concerning rngs

Comment #11

liberal47 — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:59:13 GMT

It all sort of reminds me of going to a casino to play blackjack and discovering a continuous shuffler machine, with the cards being collected and reinserted into the shuffler after every hand. Most people would like to have the expectation of being able to, count a few cards, and maybe being able to guess how many face cards are left in the deck. Sure it may just be perception, but when I'm putting my money down, I'd be more likely to play when I can feel I have a hand in the outcome.. Most lot... [ More ]

Comment #10

Todd — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:00:42 GMT

golotto: the random numbers (Quick Pick) are generated by the individual lottery terminal. They are then reported back to the central computer. I'm sure if they reported back a combination that already sold out it would then select a different combination (again, generated at the lottery terminal).

Comment #9

golotto — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:57:59 GMT

all this time while purchasing quick-pick lottery tickets...i was under the distinct impression that each lottery ticket terminal had it's own random number generator and after issuing the tickets simply reported those numbers back to the lottery computers. i understand how the numbers during the subsequent drawing (if done by a computer) could then be manipulated ...but i never in my wildest dreams had any incling that the quick-picks being issued (in any game) might be pre-determined based on... [ More ]

Comment #8

vincejr — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:48:43 GMT

Personally, I don't have a problem with limitations on the amount of plays a single number can have--i.e. liability limits as the state lotteries are businesses, and these businesses often have a dedicated goal of returning all profits to xxx program at the state level. However, I do believe that these liability limits must be publicized to avoid confusion and to keep transparency involved.Virginia has liability limits for all of its daily games--Pick 3, Pick 4, and Cash 5. However, thes... [ More ]

Comment #7

Saleo Paleo — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:40:07 GMT

Keep the ping pong ball method it cannot be controled like the computer method can,I believe the states are making a large profit with the ping pong system, Do they want to lose players, I do not play in any State that uses the computer system, I do not play in my home state of Tn because of that,

Comment #6

MikeK — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 19:21:37 GMT

this certainly is an interesting story and Jim's additional comments are very intriguing.Even as designer of lottery systems and particularly PICK 3 I never saw the use of computers as a concern. I guess I have to adjust that position after reading this.Indirectly though Jim's comments show me some truth in my concern about quick picks that I had from the beginning. A way to reduce a potentially high pay-out is to even out the numbers selected on quick pick tickets, which is very easy to do with... [ More ]

Comment #5

golotto — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:51:06 GMT

Keep using the numbered lotto balls and the mechanical drawing machines no matter what the replacement cost may be ...why change a good thing

Comment #4

Bradly_60 — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:12:35 GMT

Why do some states do that? They are always ahead one way or another. Who cares it the the players win a couple times out of the year. Take Michigan for instance. I don't know any limit on the daily games. On tax day April 15 the number 1010 came up in the daily 4 and it paid out well over $13,000,000.......2600% of the drawings sales. If a state puts a cap on they are making sure the players shouldn't be able to win ever. I like our states lottery. Brad

Comment #3

tg636 — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:51:52 GMT

Wow, great information. I had never heard of a number selection being refused - that would be enough to stop me from ever playing that game again. This stuff strikes me as being similar to the slimy underhanded computerized voting machines and manipulations, also designed to give the appearance or fairness and impartiality - your story is like a lottery version of the book Votescam .>The following day, I sent a certified letter requesting information regarding their daily games sales data, and... [ More ]

Comment #2

jim695 — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:25:19 GMT

In addition to the quote by Todd, this story features two LotteryPost members: Losingjeff and Jim695.We worked with Mr. Leininger for a year to bring this story to press. Some things not mentioned in the article:The Hoosier Lottery downloaded their Computerized Electronic Random Number Generator from the internet, according to Joe Pfister, their CPA. They don't see anything wrong with this. The same disk was used to upload the code to two PC's, which serve as our official draw machines.One of... [ More ]

Comment #1

vincejr — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:46:34 GMT

While it is true that using the balls isn't truly equally random due to wear and tear on the balls, etc, like a computer's random number generator, ball machines don't get computer viruses and/or can't have their programming tampered with like a $700 portable computer.I'm all for openness and transparency....bring back the balls.

Are Computerized Lottery Drawings Truly Random?

Lottery Post — Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:28:34 GMT

When the Powerball jackpot passes the point where greed justifies stupidity -- and, at $50 million, Saturday's drawing probably qualifies -- I've been known to hand the convenience-store clerk a $5 bill in exchange for a small slip of paper bearing five series of computer-selected numbers.

Anything won that way, of course, would be the product of dumb luck. So when I don't win millions -- and I never have, or I wouldn't have to write this column -- I don't feel cheated. I've always been more... [ More ]