Serious Question? lottery pre-draw tests

Reply #53

eddessaknight — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:59:08 GMT

Double Down on that 7 bet Amber, et al-

One Brief Example the $10 wager on Lucky 7 can be morphed into an 8 ??

Although I am not part of the 'machine' establishment I am invited list annually to the G2E Gaming Conference Exhibition Convention exclusively for the V.I.P. set with only 25,000 attendees. And on one occasion after attending their inside loss prevention seminar I witnessed a major roulette machine maker demonstrate quietly a new model 'Rapid Roulette', in which a dealer spins a... [ More ]

Reply #52

MonEl — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:24:03 GMT

Yes, by default statistics are past, so it should be like:

'it is prediction based on statistics as universal laws never change'.

Anyhow, I am right

Reply #51

adobea78 — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:01:44 GMT

Circular reasoning at its best!, you seem confused about randomness.

'it is prediction based on past statistics as universal laws never change'.

Am not aware of the term ' past statistics' , you analyze a data using statistics( a tool). Is like saying ' past wrench was use to turn these bolts!. You seem to assert an assumption from false premise and conclude as universal law, please don't do that

Reply #50

MonEl — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:37:18 GMT

No wonder that people can't predict, people don't understand how such things work.

Reply #49

MonEl — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:35:02 GMT

No, he compensated for that, after all he new about the pre and post tests, programming is such that you can even erase and or rewrite your program after it does as you want it to, unless it is burned on-in read only memory (rom), but there are roms that can be burned more than once.

Reply #48

adobea78 — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:32:27 GMT

Finding patterns isn't really a question about random processes; it's a question about the human brain.

-Mike Loukides

Excerpts;

Random events are inherently clumpy. It's tempting to think that small numbers of random events should be evenly spaced (whatever that might mean). That's not the case. If events weren't clumpy, the events wouldn't be random. Tossing 10 consecutive heads sounds unlikely. But if you flip a coin a million times, 10 consecutive heads will show up several hundred... [ More ]

Reply #47

MonEl — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:27:54 GMT

There is no random and so there is no chaos either, to us it only appears to be so.

Things might be some-what predictable due to our trying to predict future events based on past statistics, if every-time that we apply 10 pounds of force (push) to a particular object it travels some many inches, we come to believe that it will always be so, so we predict that the next time that we do that, that object will again move that many inches, it is prediction based on past statistics as universal law... [ More ]

Reply #46

MonEl — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:19:21 GMT

Chaos? There is no chaos! To us it only appears to be so.

We don't live in a chaotic universe, the universe has its laws and chaos is not one of them.

If you let go of a ball it will drop if it is heavier than air, if you throw a ball, it will go where you throw it at, but friction will sooner or later stop it.

If you catch a ball, it will stop.

There is no random, Earth will keep on going around the Sun once every 365 days and 6 hours and the Earth will keep rotating around itself o... [ More ]

Reply #45

MonEl — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:07:37 GMT

There is no such thing as natural randomness, as a fact, there is no random, to our minds it only appears to be so.

Reply #44

MonEl — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:04:19 GMT

There is no such thing as random , it only appears to be, it appears to be to the mind.

What is really predictable to some extent are statistics .

Reply #43

MonEl — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:58:38 GMT

Any-one (each) draw doesn't have anything at all to do with any other draw, they are all independent events, they are not connected in any form or way.

Every time that there is a pick 3 draw, including pre and post draws, each of the 1000 straight pick 3 numbers has an equal chance, always.

There can be a million pre and post draws and that will not affect anybodies prediction ability, if you want to predict pre-draws then you study and predict for pre-draws, if you want to predict post-dr... [ More ]

Reply #42

MonEl — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:29:31 GMT

There is no such thing as a Secret Trend Line

Reply #41

LiveInGreenBay — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 18:48:20 GMT

I guess you all heard of Eddie Tipton. If they pre-test all drawings how was he able to manipulate the computer to spit out pre-selected numbers on a specific date? Wouldn't the pre-draws chew-up his numbers

Reply #40

thamizhpayan — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:27:03 GMT

Random events have chaos. Is Chaos measurable?

If so, there may be ways to predict future results.

The math average skip of a powerball combination is in millions. If pre-test results are shown for smaller matrix pick games, We might find some patterns and strategies.

Reply #39

KY Floyd — Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:02:14 GMT

So a little bit of chaos makes it random but too much chaos makes it not random? And wouldn't each individual drawing have the same (or similar) amount of chaos

Reply #38

thamizhpayan — Sun, 16 Jul 2017 04:41:28 GMT

Adding more chaos on top of existing chaos

Reply #37

KY Floyd — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 23:00:08 GMT

disrupt what would be 'natural randomness'

Right. Would you like to explain how a procedure that produces random results when you do it x times per week becomes non-random if you do it 5x or 7x times per week

Reply #36

amber123 — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 18:12:21 GMT

I-agree..

Imagine-betting-10-bucks-on-the-number-7-on-roulette,then-the-dealer-spins-the-wheel-landing-on-7...you-jump-for-joy-but-the-dealer-says-NO!!!...that-one-doesn't-count,-I-have-to-do-6-more-spins-before-the-official-spin..

The-casinos-would-be-empty....DUH!!!

Why-is-this-concept-so-difficult-for-people-to-understand

Reply #35

Lucky Loser — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 22:48:23 GMT

What makes them come to a conclusion that it's not random.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the million dollar question. However, they have masked their reasoning by saying the machines need to be pre-tested before conducting an official draw. What this does is allow them to effectively disrupt what would be 'natural randomness' in lieu of their 'created randomness' which, once again, brings me to the same point I've made forever. *You cannot create random. From one clean official draw to the... [ More ]

Reply #34

RJOh — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 16:51:49 GMT

I only play jackpot games so selected parameters as well as trends and anything else that will limit the number of lines to an affordable amount is used.

Reply #33

thamizhpayan — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 03:53:01 GMT

True.

I mentioned JP games because so many guys who post predictions for p3 and p4 backout when it comes to JP games...

Pick 3 and pick 4 numbers cycle sooner...

Best example of tampering is Tipton and the way he did it and used it

Reply #32

grwurston — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 03:46:13 GMT

At least in the P3 P4 if the same number comes up too many times in the same position, they will pull the ball set. Say if a number comes up 3 times in 5 pre draws, they may do a couple more. If it comes up again, the ball set is out. The ASSUMPTION is somebody tampered with them. But with all the security measures how would it be possible? I suppose they don't want to consider that it might just be a random occurrence. But when it happens in the official drawing, that's what they would claim.... [ More ]

Reply #31

adobea78 — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 03:14:45 GMT

The word prediction refers to level of uncertainty, no one knows the outcome of the next event/s. The parameters or characteristics that will give the slightest inclination of algorithm is tested with the null hypothesis and voided. I will not dwell much on the pre-test, they can ran 10,20,1000 of them, it does not change the exclusivity of each draw-previous draws has no impact on the next draw.

Reply #30

thamizhpayan — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 02:24:09 GMT

In Jackpot games:

Is the random outcome(for this draw) predictable within playable count? Are random outcomes predictable?

What parameters or characteristics make a pre-test draw or a machine or a ball set not worthy of running the actual draw(not capable of picking the random draw for the day

Reply #29

adobea78 — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 23:50:35 GMT

In depth knowledge of ' Null hypothesis' will suffice.

A type of hypothesis used in statistics that proposes that no statistical significance exists in a set of given observations.-Any inclination of algorithm is deem null and void, why? The premise of the game is suppose to be random . One thing I find peculiar about folks who do not subscribe to this premise of the game, why do you continue to play? I see folks adding 999, -1, flip mirrors etc, inadvertently randomizing their workout, yet... [ More ]

Reply #28

thamizhpayan — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:38:00 GMT

True.

How can something that is drawn from such secured machine(physically), that has no parameterization except duration between pulling a ball from the pool categorized as not so random.

What makes them come to a conclusion that it's not random.

Reply #27

grwurston — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:28:44 GMT

With all the security on the balls and machines it's practically impossible to rig anything. Anytime they want to pull the ball set out because something in the pre-test doesn't fit their statistical parameters, what they are really saying is we don't think that was random. What they don't want to accept is that, random does not always fit statistical parameters.

Kind of funny that they always tell us, everything in the lottery is completely random. But when something that is supposed to be c... [ More ]

Reply #26

adobea78 — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:43:02 GMT

Predictable trends and factors are 'post-events', why not generate predictable trends based on selected parameter

Reply #25

RJOh — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:15:05 GMT

Reply #24

amber123 — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 15:50:08 GMT

They're afraid that people who bought tickets with the pre-draw numbers would fuss about being declared a non-winner.

That's-not-the-issue...All-we-want-are-the-results-of-the-tests.

Secondly,-it-is-you-who-doesn't-understand...No-need-for-pre-tests-whatsoever....The-machines-are-locked-up-in-a-vault-and-it-takes-a-few-people-to-unlock-it-in-front-of-independent-auditors...Give-me-a-break...

Reply #23

KY Floyd — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 00:03:30 GMT

You mean did the pre-draw testing have an effect on his ability to predict the winning numbers? That would depend on at least two things.

One is whether or not the code differentiates between test drawings and the official drawing. If the test drawings are different in any way then the reasonable conclusion is that he'd have written code that let him predict the official drawing, and he'd have no interest in the test drawings. A lottery that had robust security (which, IMHO, rules out any of... [ More ]

Reply #22

RJOh — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:15:39 GMT

The fact that are several test drawings and only one official drawing make it more likely players will match one of them.

Reply #21

bobby623 — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:11:32 GMT

IMHO

Anyone who creates and maintains a game history data base has got to know that game outcomes are traveling along what has to be defined as a mysterious and secret 'trend line' composed of many unknown and inconsistent factors.

Many millions of manhours and real money has been spent by dedicated lottery players trying to define and use the trend line to win a prize.

Unfortunately, no one has been able to discover the secrets involved. If they had, we wouldn't have multi-million doll... [ More ]

Reply #20

LiveInGreenBay — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 12:27:21 GMT

Don't think that's the reason. Rules of the game would prevent that. You might have some pissed-off people though. I wonder if Wisconsin had pre-draws when Eddie Tipton rigged the program. If so, did it help? Obviously not.

Reply #19

BobP — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:07:46 GMT

Seems to me Florida has been fairly clear they test the machines to ensure randomness and pull a machine if their test doesn't indicate it is random enough. Kind of like a casino pit boss pulling a hot dice and later handing them to another table. It isn't that the machine or dice are hot, it's the disruption of the flow that makes the difference.

Say the lottery used only one machine and ballset, and we could bribe a guard a $100 a night to let us slip in and run drawings all night(s) how... [ More ]

Reply #18

EdG1955 — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 23:28:28 GMT

They're afraid that people who bought tickets with the pre-draw numbers would fuss about being declared a non-winner. My numbers came in on the pre-draw. I deserve a prize.

Of course, only people who don't understand why pre-draws are necessary would make such a dumb claim.

Reply #17

Lucky Loser — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 22:50:45 GMT

Yep, you always seem to grasp what I'm getting at along with some others. When they conduct pre-tests, they are indirectly impacting the law of recurrence and manipulating natural probability. This idea of the balls having no memory and one thing not having anything to do with the other is not a very good example in my opinion. Sure, neither of the balls knows what's going on with the other BUT, the human eye surely does and from there will interpret what is the next best cycle of numbers/combos... [ More ]

Reply #16

adobea78 — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 04:18:40 GMT

The human brain sees patterns, and what are patterns? Is a point of orientation, a safe comfort zone, the brain creates them even if it's not there!

'Do you see the yellow canary on the guard rail?, I asked a friend.

'No, he said, but I can see the rail moving'.

'Oh, now I see the yellow smaller bird'!

The friend perceived a movement(and wrongly saw the rail moving!) and SAW the bird finally. Prediction is on the side of perceived movement(intuition is a great factor here),seei... [ More ]

Reply #15

amber123 — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 03:26:16 GMT

Imagine-having-7-pre-tests-before-every-flip-of-a-coin...

Then-imagine-a-simultaneous-experiment-that-doesn't-do-back-tests....I-would-love-to-see-the-results-over-a-long-time-period-where-the-poor-sucker-who-is-betting-on-the-pre-test-side-is-losing-his-shirt-wondering-why-it's-takng-like-for-effin-ever-for-a-heads-to-show..

It-could've-been-that-most-of-the-heads-were-drawn-during-the-pre-tests,-thus-explaining-the-UNUSUAL-low-number-of-heads,skewing-everything.-surprised-the-universe-di... [ More ]

Reply #14

avacat — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 01:47:22 GMT

NC publishes the previous month's predraw nos. I believe that it's Vergie who posts them here. Don't know how/where she gets them, but she does post them here sometimes.

Reply #13

MonEl — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 22:33:16 GMT

Yes, since one draw doesn't have anything at all to do with any other draw, if you wanted to make predictions for the 1st of every month of the year, that is for the very next 1st of the month, if you wanted to you could just use a history of winning numbers having draws from the 1st of every month.

After all, it is a make believe thing, statistics or whatever you want to call them, is the only thing at all that relates one lottery thing with any other(s) lottery thing(s) .

Many people don... [ More ]

Reply #12

LiveInGreenBay — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 17:57:51 GMT

Hey can't you guys condense that into 3 or 4 sentences? Its like reading a freaking book for God's sake.

Reply #11

bobby623 — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 17:26:00 GMT

Being one of the 'funny' people who say lottery balls have no memory, my opinion may not be worth much.

However, my opinion is that we can choose any of the many ways to use game history as the basis for our individual integer choices.

I think every lottery gambler knows how to create and use a game history file.

We can include or not include the so-called pre- and post-test permutations/combinations. We just have to be consistent.

Texans can include the tests because they are immedi... [ More ]

Reply #10

Ron5995 — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 15:44:37 GMT

In my view, that's the key question. Are lotteries simply concerned that releasing such pre-test data will confuse players? -and/or are they afraid that players will question the entire draw process? My guess is it's a combination of both. Most lotteries rely on self-regulation, and generally lack transparency. Texas is among the few exceptions.

What would be interesting is for someone with the time and lottery data (ie. paid members of LP) analyzing the number distribution of past draws. For... [ More ]

Reply #9

Lottotree12 — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 15:21:55 GMT

patterns of pre draws and past numbers can help to produce the winning numbers

Reply #8

MonEl — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 13:46:16 GMT

You might be wasting your time, you forget that any-one draws doesn't have anything to do with any other draw, or so they say, they say that lottery games are random games or games of chance.

I say that lottery things are related to or with each other by the use of their statistics, so I would only use the actual published winning draws for making lottery predictions and not any pre and or post draws results, use pre draws to make pre-draws predictions, use post draws to make post-draws predi... [ More ]

Reply #7

Lucky Loser — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 13:39:20 GMT

Outside of lottery systems, this is probably the most controversial topic discussed at LP...with good reason. We've debated on why they even conduct these tests as they surely expedite wear and tear on the machines which we pay for but, have no say so regarding this. Then, and most of all, the biggest concern seems to be their reasoning with as to why they actually implement pre-test draws. They say it's to promote fairness, randomness, and to ensure the integrity of the draw but pretty much eve... [ More ]

Reply #6

amber123 — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 06:27:45 GMT

and not pre-draw tests.

......................................................

Reply #5

LiveInGreenBay — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 23:02:58 GMT

Those pre-test numbers should be posted on the lottery website for every drawing when the winning numbers are printed. If lottery numbers (RNG) are totally random, what are they afraid of? Random numbers have no pattern....Right

Reply #4

MillionsWanted — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:13:24 GMT

Get together a group to submit the request, so the cost will be lower.

Reply #3

LiveInGreenBay — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:08:22 GMT

LOL! I emailed the WI lottery for a list of all pre-draws. They told me I had to submit a freedom of information request and that it would cost me money to do so. Screw them! Even with pre-draw there's a pattern/trend. Only thing is, you're looking at 2 or 3 different patterns instead of one. Good luck.

Reply #2

Lottotree12 — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 21:52:22 GMT

wow. know wonder it's so difficult to hit the jackpot

Reply #1

lottolaughs — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 19:16:21 GMT

Because that's all most of us have. Hardly any states publish pre-draw tests. Who does, anyone know? Besides Tx, that is.

Serious Question? lottery pre-draw tests

Lottotree12 — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 18:56:40 GMT

Shouldn't we be calculating numbers (wheels,system,etc...) for future wins instead of present.I think most people base their number

selection on the very last draw date and not pre-draw tests.