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Lucky Loser

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Jun 2, 2013, 5:13 pm
Quote: Originally posted by Ronnie316 on Jun 2, 2013
I've always said there is no such thing as random.

If that's what you believe, you should have been my biggest supporter when I said.....

Because the balls are NUMBERED, it is not a random event.

https://www.lotterypost.com/thread/247020
ran·dom

/'rand?m/
Adjective

Made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision: "a random sample of 100 households".
This is NOT the method by which the lotteries operate although they claim to. If it were truly a random draw every time, then they wouldn't be conducting so called pre-test draws. Supposedly, it's to promote fairness and ensure the machines are functioning properly. Well, I called bullsh*t on this one years ago. A random draw would mean cranking up the machine, allowing the balls to be agitated for a specific time, and then simply drawing the winning numbers.

No pre-tests between the official draws or any of that bogus sh*t. In my opinion, the real reason is because they know that numbers can naturally only do so much within the numerical scale. By conducting so many pre-tests, it more or less causes the final outcome to "start over"...if this makes sense. It's their way of legally cheating.

"Wow, Lucky! How do you figure they're cheating?" Well, when you go to a casino and sit down at the Black Jack table, they don't shuffle the cards, pass 'em out 3-4 times, and re-collect 'em before they play an actual hand...right? What about at the Craps tables? Sure, they shake the dice around in their hand a bit before they toss 'em out but, they don't toss 'em out and collect 'em 3-4 times before an official toss...right?

Let's look at Roulette. They don't turn the wheel and let the ball land 3-4 times before they conduct an actual spin and land...right?

Ahhhh, let this sink in for a minute or two. Lotteries are most definitely organized.

L.L.
Small games, frequent wins, and regular payouts 'cause.....

There are seven days in the week...'Someday' isn't one of them.

#lotto-4-a-living
onlymoney

United States
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June 2, 2012
5,431 Posts
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Jun 2, 2013, 6:25 pm
Quote: Originally posted by Lucky Loser on Jun 2, 2013
ran·dom

/'rand?m/
Adjective

Made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision: "a random sample of 100 households".

This is NOT the method by which the lotteries operate although they claim to. If it were truly a random draw every time, then they wouldn't be conducting so called pre-test draws. Supposedly, it's to promote fairness and ensure the machines are functioning properly. Well, I called bullsh*t on this one years ago. A random draw would mean cranking up the machine, allowing the balls to be agitated for a specific time, and then simply drawing the winning numbers.

No pre-tests between the official draws or any of that bogus sh*t. In my opinion, the real reason is because they know that numbers can naturally only do so much within the numerical scale. By conducting so many pre-tests, it more or less causes the final outcome to "start over"...if this makes sense. It's their way of legally cheating.

"Wow, Lucky! How do you figure they're cheating?" Well, when you go to a casino and sit down at the Black Jack table, they don't shuffle the cards, pass 'em out 3-4 times, and re-collect 'em before they play an actual hand...right? What about at the Craps tables? Sure, they shake the dice around in their hand a bit before they toss 'em out but, they don't toss 'em out and collect 'em 3-4 times before an official toss...right?

Let's look at Roulette. They don't turn the wheel and let the ball land 3-4 times before they conduct an actual spin and land...right?

Ahhhh, let this sink in for a minute or two. Lotteries are most definitely organized.

L.L.
Bravo !

You definitely get it. I believe it was Stack47 who wrote a couple of weeks ago, "It's like starting your car 6 times a day to make sure your starter is still working". lol

Now I can hear the critics thinking. They may be saying to themselves, "A lottery drawing is much more important than your car, so every measure must be taken to ensure proper working machines". Or something to that effect. But the problem with that scenario is that it doesn't matter how many pre and post tests they do, the machine will eventually fail. What will they do then? I'm sure they have a protocol to deal with that situation. So why don't they just wait for that inevitable moment to happen and leave the friggin machines alone? In fact, they're encouraging the machines to break sooner because of the extra wear and tear they impose on those machines. DUH! It's like self prophecy.

The heavy hitters in the background use old techniques for reasons to impose on the masses. I'd bet a hundred bucks the PA incident was done by insiders on purpose. Now they had a good reason to start this pre and post test nonesense. Create a problem and show people what must be done to fix this.

What they didn't take into consideration was the existence of a few intelligent people who saw the BS. I mean c'mon, If you're going to lie, come up with better reasons than some stupid story about machine integrity. Ha, People are wising up. It's fundamental knowledge, more friction results in the exponential increase of degradation within the machine. They speed up the normal speed of Entropy, and perpetual motion laws.

I want everyone reading this to stick your head outside your window tonight at precisely 8 pm and yell as hard as you can, "I'm mad as hell, and I won't take it anymore". Keep repeating this until you drop.
Lucky Loser

Texas
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Jun 2, 2013, 7:41 pm

Quote: Originally posted by onlymoney on Jun 2, 2013
Bravo !

You definitely get it. I believe it was Stack47 who wrote a couple of weeks ago, "It's like starting your car 6 times a day to make sure your starter is still working". lol

Now I can hear the critics thinking. They may be saying to themselves, "A lottery drawing is much more important than your car, so every measure must be taken to ensure proper working machines". Or something to that effect. But the problem with that scenario is that it doesn't matter how many pre and post tests they do, the machine will eventually fail. What will they do then? I'm sure they have a protocol to deal with that situation. So why don't they just wait for that inevitable moment to happen and leave the friggin machines alone? In fact, they're encouraging the machines to break sooner because of the extra wear and tear they impose on those machines. DUH! It's like self prophecy.

The heavy hitters in the background use old techniques for reasons to impose on the masses. I'd bet a hundred bucks the PA incident was done by insiders on purpose. Now they had a good reason to start this pre and post test nonesense. Create a problem and show people what must be done to fix this.

What they didn't take into consideration was the existence of a few intelligent people who saw the BS. I mean c'mon, If you're going to lie, come up with better reasons than some stupid story about machine integrity. Ha, People are wising up. It's fundamental knowledge, more friction results in the exponential increase of degradation within the machine. They speed up the normal speed of Entropy, and perpetual motion laws.

I want everyone reading this to stick your head outside your window tonight at precisely 8 pm and yell as hard as you can, "I'm mad as hell, and I won't take it anymore". Keep repeating this until you drop.

Bravo to you as well! I couldn't have said any of this better myself...your illustrations are priceless and spot-on. If you decide to search anything regarding pre-tests or pre-draws here at LP, you'll see where you and I speak the same language. I've re-hashed all the numbers and scenerios on why certain things happen they way do many times with newcomers who are boggled.

Any sharp and even semi-mathematically inclined individual can look at a group of numbers and know what they're "supposed" to do in a given random event. Well, so do the mathematicians who develop lottery games and figure odds. Not by pure coincidence, those odds are actually guarantees on how much money will be generated on the game in question also. The pre-tests, along with the payout numbers, are simply designed to thwart any systems that really sharp players develop.

As far as I'm concerned, things such as a single digit drawn in the same position 4-5 times in a row, the same two digits being drawn twice in the same position, a pair of doubles in the same position several times, the same sum twice, an all odd/all even number up to three times in a row...all these scenerios, and many more, are direct products of pre and post-test draws.

Bottom line...they know exactly what they're doing and why. It's also why I adjusted myself around as many parameters as I could...and the most important one is PATIENCE.

L.L.

Small games, frequent wins, and regular payouts 'cause.....

There are seven days in the week...'Someday' isn't one of them.

#lotto-4-a-living
yoho

Toronto
Canada
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January 26, 2013
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Jun 2, 2013, 7:47 pm

It's funny how the few people who can't understand basic common sense think they're the "intelligent" ones.

Motive.

Can you explain their motive for the so called "cheating"? What can they gain by doing pre-tests? To go through such elaborate schemes, surely they would need to at least have some sort of a benefit? If there's no benefit, why would they go through that much trouble?

Your idea about the "PA incident" is hilarious as well. While I don't know what this PA incident is, your thinking clearly shows a self-centered attitude seen in many Americans.

That incident, probably happened in PA, USA, right? So what about Canada? The UK? Australia? Japan? China? South America? Would the rest of the world all need to create some sort of an incident? Or did you think that everyone always knows what happens in the US? Most certainly I would say almost every (if not every) lottery run by the state in the world does pre-tests.
yoho

Toronto
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Jun 2, 2013, 7:51 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Lucky Loser on Jun 2, 2013
Bravo to you as well! I couldn't have said any of this better myself...your illustrations are priceless and spot-on. If you decide to search anything regarding pre-tests or pre-draws here at LP, you'll see where you and I speak the same language. I've re-hashed all the numbers and scenerios on why certain things happen they way do many times with newcomers who are boggled.

Any sharp and even semi-mathematically inclined individual can look at a group of numbers and know what they're "supposed" to do in a given random event. Well, so do the mathematicians who develop lottery games and figure odds. Not by pure coincidence, those odds are actually guarantees on how much money will be generated on the game in question also. The pre-tests, along with the payout numbers, are simply designed to thwart any systems that really sharp players develop.

As far as I'm concerned, things such as a single digit drawn in the same position 4-5 times in a row, the same two digits being drawn twice in the same position, a pair of doubles in the same position several times, the same sum twice, an all odd/all even number up to three times in a row...all these scenerios, and many more, are direct products of pre and post-test draws.

Bottom line...they know exactly what they're doing and why. It's also why I adjusted myself around as many parameters as I could...and the most important one is PATIENCE.

L.L.

"Bottom line...they know exactly what they're doing and why."

Of course they do! LOL. What are they supposed to do, not know anything? Have a bunch of 2 yr olds run the lottery?

If Millions of people are spending millions of dollars every week on their products, you bet they should know exactly what they're doing and why. Lol. Not knowing what they're doing would be wrong, not the other way around.
Lucky Loser

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Jun 2, 2013, 7:56 pm

Quote: Originally posted by yoho on Jun 2, 2013
"Bottom line...they know exactly what they're doing and why."

Of course they do! LOL. What are they supposed to do, not know anything? Have a bunch of 2 yr olds run the lottery?

If Millions of people are spending millions of dollars every week on their products, you bet they should know exactly what they're doing and why. Lol. Not knowing what they're doing would be wrong, not the other way around.

My point, Sir, was that just because they're doing it doesn't make it right. Check my reference to the casinos and how they do things. I'd be willing to bet that if you were at a Roulette table and dropped $5K on Red and it landed on Red, but they tried to tell you it was a "pre-spin" and you didn't win...they'd need a TASK FORCE to get you out of there.

Don't try and insult my intelligence here, okay. Keep this in its' proper context.

L.L.

Small games, frequent wins, and regular payouts 'cause.....

There are seven days in the week...'Someday' isn't one of them.

#lotto-4-a-living
yoho

Toronto
Canada
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January 26, 2013
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Jun 2, 2013, 9:12 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Lucky Loser on Jun 2, 2013
My point, Sir, was that just because they're doing it doesn't make it right. Check my reference to the casinos and how they do things. I'd be willing to bet that if you were at a Roulette table and dropped $5K on Red and it landed on Red, but they tried to tell you it was a "pre-spin" and you didn't win...they'd need a TASK FORCE to get you out of there.

Don't try and insult my intelligence here, okay. Keep this in its' proper context.

L.L.

I would never play at a casino.

But assuming I did, if they told me it was a pre-spin BEFORE, they spinned it, I would have no problems with it. If they said it afterwards, I'd agree with you.

But the lottery tells you about the pre-draws. Maybe I'm just stupid, but I can't see a single benefit for the lottery by conducting pre-draws, other than to ensure security and fairness of the game. If you can point out any other benefits, I'd be glad to hear.-
Stack47

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Jun 2, 2013, 11:20 pm

Quote: Originally posted by yoho on Jun 2, 2013
I would never play at a casino.

But assuming I did, if they told me it was a pre-spin BEFORE, they spinned it, I would have no problems with it. If they said it afterwards, I'd agree with you.

But the lottery tells you about the pre-draws. Maybe I'm just stupid, but I can't see a single benefit for the lottery by conducting pre-draws, other than to ensure security and fairness of the game. If you can point out any other benefits, I'd be glad to hear.-

From the Texas Lottery site:

"The Texas Lottery performs at least four pre-tests before every Pick 3 drawing. The Pick 3 drawing machine uses three separate ball sets – one for each of the three winning numbers. Each of these three ball sets are tested in separate chambers of the Pick 3 drawing machine. The ball sets for Pick 3 pass or fail the pre-tests independently.

If any Pick 3 ball is drawn four times in the same chamber, a fifth pre-test is performed. If any Pick 3 ball that was drawn four times in the same chamber is drawn a fifth time in the same chamber, then the ball set – in that chamber only – will not pass the pre-tests."

After passing all the "pre-tests", what happens if the same digit is drawn five consecutive times during the real drawing?

If the drawing is random we should expect every once in a while to see a digit drawn drawn four consecutive times, but Texas decided if it happens the fifth time the drawing isn't be random.

"When a ball set does not pass the pre-tests, more pre-tests are performed to test the alternate ball set(s). These additional pre-tests are shown in RED."

If you ever see where a digit was drawn in four consecutive drawings, it can't be drawn in the next because if it was, the drawing can't be random.

"But assuming I did, if they told me it was a pre-spin BEFORE, they spinned it, I would have no problems with it. If they said it afterwards, I'd agree with you."

Casinos do check their equipment when the tables or slots are closed, but you'll never see the results. With card games the random process is shuffling the cards and that is done by machine. I don't have a problem with pre-drawing test, but I don't see the logic behind publishing the results AFTER the drawing. I can't think of one reason why the results are even shown unless it's a dig at all the players who played the test numbers in the drawing.
Jon D

Los Angeles, California
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January 5, 2011
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Jun 2, 2013, 11:29 pm

Quote: Originally posted by yoho on Jun 2, 2013
It's funny how the few people who can't understand basic common sense think they're the "intelligent" ones.

Motive.

Can you explain their motive for the so called "cheating"? What can they gain by doing pre-tests? To go through such elaborate schemes, surely they would need to at least have some sort of a benefit? If there's no benefit, why would they go through that much trouble?

Your idea about the "PA incident" is hilarious as well. While I don't know what this PA incident is, your thinking clearly shows a self-centered attitude seen in many Americans.

That incident, probably happened in PA, USA, right? So what about Canada? The UK? Australia? Japan? China? South America? Would the rest of the world all need to create some sort of an incident? Or did you think that everyone always knows what happens in the US? Most certainly I would say almost every (if not every) lottery run by the state in the world does pre-tests.

While I don't know what this PA incident is, your thinking clearly shows a self-centered attitude seen in many Americans.

What is your major malfunction yoho? You come here with your arrogant condescending attitude and pick fights with people in just about every other post.
And now you went and insulted all Americans with the above phrase. Well that's just swell.

Just a few posts back you try to show how superior you are and insult all lottery players.

Aren't you just a troll? Why are you here if you think the lottery is stupid and everyone here is stupid?

Why don't you go back to Canada, and take that other little arrogant prique Justin Bieber back with you. We've had enough of him as well.
rcbbuckeye

100

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October 23, 2007
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Jun 2, 2013, 11:37 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Jun 2, 2013
From the Texas Lottery site:

"The Texas Lottery performs at least four pre-tests before every Pick 3 drawing. The Pick 3 drawing machine uses three separate ball sets – one for each of the three winning numbers. Each of these three ball sets are tested in separate chambers of the Pick 3 drawing machine. The ball sets for Pick 3 pass or fail the pre-tests independently.

If any Pick 3 ball is drawn four times in the same chamber, a fifth pre-test is performed. If any Pick 3 ball that was drawn four times in the same chamber is drawn a fifth time in the same chamber, then the ball set – in that chamber only – will not pass the pre-tests."

After passing all the "pre-tests", what happens if the same digit is drawn five consecutive times during the real drawing?

If the drawing is random we should expect every once in a while to see a digit drawn drawn four consecutive times, but Texas decided if it happens the fifth time the drawing isn't be random.

"When a ball set does not pass the pre-tests, more pre-tests are performed to test the alternate ball set(s). These additional pre-tests are shown in RED."

If you ever see where a digit was drawn in four consecutive drawings, it can't be drawn in the next because if it was, the drawing can't be random.

"But assuming I did, if they told me it was a pre-spin BEFORE, they spinned it, I would have no problems with it. If they said it afterwards, I'd agree with you."

Casinos do check their equipment when the tables or slots are closed, but you'll never see the results. With card games the random process is shuffling the cards and that is done by machine. I don't have a problem with pre-drawing test, but I don't see the logic behind publishing the results AFTER the drawing. I can't think of one reason why the results are even shown unless it's a dig at all the players who played the test numbers in the drawing.

Frankly, I've never really worried about the pre draw tests. I look at them from time to time out of curiosity, and learned that they publish the test results before the actual drawing. I do think that that many tests are over the top, but I also believe that the Texas Lottery Commission is very transparent in how they do business.

JUST LOOK AT THE ODDS OF ANY JACKPOT GAME, THAT WILL TELL YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW
jimmy4164

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Jun 3, 2013, 12:04 am

Quote: Originally posted by rcbbuckeye on Jun 2, 2013
Frankly, I've never really worried about the pre draw tests. I look at them from time to time out of curiosity, and learned that they publish the test results before the actual drawing. I do think that that many tests are over the top, but I also believe that the Texas Lottery Commission is very transparent in how they do business.

rcbbuckeye,

I agree - a very sensible observation.

On the other hand, Stack47 says,

"If the drawing is random we should expect every once in a while to see a digit drawn drawn four consecutive times, but Texas decided if it happens the fifth time the drawing isn't be random..."

"...If you ever see where a digit was drawn in four consecutive drawings, it can't be drawn in the next because if it was, the drawing can't be random."

If you ever see a digit drawn in 4 consecutive official drawings, you can rest assured [at least in TX] there were multiple pretests interleaved with them, possibly even ball set changes between them. So, there is no reason this digit can't appear for the 5th time in the official drawing.

If pretests like those described here had been the policy in PA in 1980, the "PA Event" would have been a "NON Event" because the plot would have been foiled before the official draw.

--Jimmy4164
grwurston

100

Same digits. Different games.

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Jun 3, 2013, 12:52 am

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Jun 2, 2013
From the Texas Lottery site:

"The Texas Lottery performs at least four pre-tests before every Pick 3 drawing. The Pick 3 drawing machine uses three separate ball sets – one for each of the three winning numbers. Each of these three ball sets are tested in separate chambers of the Pick 3 drawing machine. The ball sets for Pick 3 pass or fail the pre-tests independently.

If any Pick 3 ball is drawn four times in the same chamber, a fifth pre-test is performed. If any Pick 3 ball that was drawn four times in the same chamber is drawn a fifth time in the same chamber, then the ball set – in that chamber only – will not pass the pre-tests."

After passing all the "pre-tests", what happens if the same digit is drawn five consecutive times during the real drawing?

If the drawing is random we should expect every once in a while to see a digit drawn drawn four consecutive times, but Texas decided if it happens the fifth time the drawing isn't be random.

"When a ball set does not pass the pre-tests, more pre-tests are performed to test the alternate ball set(s). These additional pre-tests are shown in RED."

If you ever see where a digit was drawn in four consecutive drawings, it can't be drawn in the next because if it was, the drawing can't be random.

"But assuming I did, if they told me it was a pre-spin BEFORE, they spinned it, I would have no problems with it. If they said it afterwards, I'd agree with you."

Casinos do check their equipment when the tables or slots are closed, but you'll never see the results. With card games the random process is shuffling the cards and that is done by machine. I don't have a problem with pre-drawing test, but I don't see the logic behind publishing the results AFTER the drawing. I can't think of one reason why the results are even shown unless it's a dig at all the players who played the test numbers in the drawing.

Kentucky does the same thing in regards to pretests. This link discusses G-Tech taking over the Indiana lottery because it can make more money than the old way. https://www.lotterypost.com/news/251527 However, the most interesting part is the answers or lack thereof, posted by an employee of the lottery to some of the questions asked about pretests and why they do them at the end of the article.

Before you play there are 2 choices to make. Low sum or high sum and consecutive pair or no consecutive pair. Choose correctly and you go from 120 combos down to 30. Not a bad starting point.
yoho

Toronto
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January 26, 2013
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Jun 3, 2013, 2:19 am

Quote: Originally posted by Jon D on Jun 2, 2013
While I don't know what this PA incident is, your thinking clearly shows a self-centered attitude seen in many Americans.

What is your major malfunction yoho? You come here with your arrogant condescending attitude and pick fights with people in just about every other post.
And now you went and insulted all Americans with the above phrase. Well that's just swell.

Just a few posts back you try to show how superior you are and insult all lottery players.

Aren't you just a troll? Why are you here if you think the lottery is stupid and everyone here is stupid?

Why don't you go back to Canada, and take that other little arrogant prique Justin Bieber back with you. We've had enough of him as well.

I didn't insult all americans, I insulted the ones who think the US is the center of the world. There are many who don't. You say I insulted "all Americans". How come you don't have anything against onlymoney, who insulted everyone who agrees with pre-tests? He basically implied that everyone else is stupid, and only the few intelligent people like him can see through the scheme.

I also didn't say I am superior, but certainly in regards to this issue, I do think I know more than most people posting here. They know much more about many things I know nothing about. I don't know why people feel that if someone knows something, then they feel they're superior or something.

Aren't I just a troll? Sometimes. If you want to call me a troll, I can't stop you. Why am I here? First, I don't think the lottery is "stupid". The expected return is low, but I want a dream for a few bucks too, just like everyone else here. And I don't think everyone here is stupid. There are just many who are ignorant and refuse to admit it. I hope that I can change them, though I know I probably can't.

and I am in Canada right now, thank you very much. There's no need for me to go back :p
Lucky Loser

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Jun 3, 2013, 11:30 am

Well, let me hit it from another angle which may help...and this will probably be the most compelling truth of all. Let's assume that the official midday draw is 6-2-4. Now, after they complete the official draw, they conduct a post-test draw for whatever stupid reason they claim...and players have no access to this pertinent information until AFTERWARDS. Moving right along, they then post all the test results and the official results. Players are now crunching numbers and preparing systems for 6-2-4 results.

It's now time for the evening/night draw and they begin the pre-tests once again. Guess what? 6-2-4 has been thrown out the window by at least (5) total draws but, it's also been put right back into the fold. The real numbers which are being played "behind" or "dealt with" are the one's in the FINAL CURRENT PRE-TEST DRAW for the evening, okay. Those are the true numbers players should be allowed to work with because it is the TRUE LAST RESULT. But, players aren't afforded this and one must wonder why. Players don't know anything until after it's all said and done. After this, another possible post-test along with more pre-tests before the next official draw. On and on and on the B.S. goes.

This is what disrupts systems and it's the lotteries' intention as such. They show players one thing and hide the real deal... in laymens terms. In conducting such tests they're trying to make it where the player can never "catch up", so to speak, with a system and real time numbers.

I hope this is a bit clearer. Anyone that feels pre-tests have no bearing on the final outcome of a draw, and they're implementing a system based on a so-called previous draw history, is pretty disengauged in my opinion. They pretty much give players a "mirage" to work with. Yeah, they don't get players with the numbers...it's the processing of the numbers. It's up to the player to figure out how they can adjust.

L.L.

Small games, frequent wins, and regular payouts 'cause.....

There are seven days in the week...'Someday' isn't one of them.

#lotto-4-a-living
d1nnl2

CHERRY HILL, NJ
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Jun 3, 2013, 11:48 am

Even random number generators (rng) are not random. They are executions of computer instructions. Guess who gives/made/created those instructions ?

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